Curse

Felbryn · Jul 26, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by unholy guardian

i don't know... still seems somewhat balance.. i mean a caster hate mesmet would destroy you... badly, and gaze of contempt would bascially kill you as well, there are plenty of balances, maybe this class will just make those more appealing?

I very seriously doubt that enchantments which end prematurely fail to give you the health and energy, because it looks like the intended purpose of this is to make it so that Dervishes (who are supposed to be front-line fighters in robes) don't drop like flies as soon as they run into mobs that can strip their self-enchantments. This looks like an attribute designed to allow a fighting style where you need to be enchanted most of the time by providing a counter to disenchantment.

But even if you need to wait for the enchantment to expire, I don' t see how a spell like Gaze of Contempt would "destroy" the build. The enemy uses up a skill slot, 15 energy, 2 second cast time to deprive you of your energy recovery from one cycle of your enchantments. So? You just cast them again; that's rather less devastating than using the same skills on a character (like, say, Dervishes as they are apparently intended to be played) who is actually depending on the effects of the enchantments, rather than using them primarily for energy management. Seems to me he'd be rather lucky to catch you with more than 15 energy worth of enchantments on you at a time, since you'd only use 5-cost ones for energy management anyway.

And I see no reason that a "caster hate mesmer" (of any flavor) would be more effective against Dervish energy management casters than any other casters. Sure, Mesmers have plenty of abilities that can be absolutely devastating to casters, if you don't have a proper counter to the Mesmers, but that's hardly specific to this strategy.

Kaldor Meshekal · Jul 26, 2006, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Bets on how many times Dervishes get nerfed this weekend?

..I'd have a laugh if the Dervish skill list contained no enchantments

Kaane · Jul 27, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Yeah, I was thinking that a Dervish/Assassin sounds pretty effective as well. It'll be fun experimenting this weekend. Hopefully they will have a D/A prebuilt, since I don't have any Balth faction stored up at the moment (nor will I have access to my GW-playing computer until the weekend), so I can't just unlock Dervish skills for a custom-pvp char.

Lady Lozza · Jul 27, 2006, 04:24 AM // 04:24

I'm guessing that Mysticism will be limited to targeted enchantments, cast by you, and on you. So Aegis will not trigger it. RoF cast by your monk, will not trigger it. RoF cast by you, but put on another team member also will not trigger it. This makes the attribute much less effecitve.

Khift · Jul 27, 2006, 05:13 AM // 05:13

It is most likely exactly what it says: Any enchantment on you ending for any reason.

Situation: A smiter casts RoF on you. 8 seconds pass and nothing else relevant happens. RoF expires. Mysticism triggers.
Situation: A smiter casts RoF on you. A warrior tries to smack you in the face. RoF triggers, prevents the damage and heals you. Mysticism triggers.
Situation: A smiter casts RoF on you. 2 seconds pass and nothing else relevant happens. The smiter recasts RoF on you. Mysticism does not trigger.

The wording is exactly the same as the wording on MoR, thus implying that it will work exactly the same as MoR: it triggers when an enchantment ends whether from natural expiration or from skills like CoP or Shatter Enchantment. It will not trigger when an enchantment is renewed before it's duration is up, as the original enchantment never gets a chance to end, it simply has it's duration rewritten.

Thom · Jul 27, 2006, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Call me stupid, but I fail to see how this is going to be broken.

Sounds like it is going to play like 55 monk or a tank warrior, especially as a D/Mo. As a PvP player, that is completely unimpressive. The battery possibilities are no more promising than soul reaping. Even with a battery function, the most you are going to get out of Dervishers is annoying pressure. Warriors will remain damage king and your dervisher will be left with niche roles.

We'll have to wait to see individual utility and "god skills" before making a final analysis here. Playing strong dervish skills without mystiscism could end up like playing monk skills withoug DF or ranger skills without expertise. The skills will likely be designed taking into account the energy and heal bonuses. Dervishes will undoubtably be energy hungry and constantly in melee range, so health and energy will be a matter of survival.

Takonic · Jul 27, 2006, 07:55 AM // 07:55

what if its a new type of enchantment where it cannot be taken off? and that it applies to only dervish skills? like one of its attribute says cold damage/offensive....what if they are similar to a rits weapon spell...could be "godly enchantment" designed only to use by a dervish?

Lady Lozza · Jul 27, 2006, 08:11 AM // 08:11

No, Takonic, mysticism will apply to all skills. Whether or not it is triggered on certain enchantments, is another matter.

+8 energy when your monk's aegis ends, IMHO, is broken.
+8 energy when your monk's RoF ends, IMHO, is broken.

My thoughs are that it will apply only to targeted enchantments, cast by the caster, on the caster.

Dobermann · Jul 27, 2006, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felbryn

That's not entirely clear (in particular, it doesn't say what enchantments it applies to). But any plausible way I can think to read it, this seems to mean you can use low-cost enchantments on yourself (e.g. Reversal of Fortune) and regain at least their entire energy cost when they end (plus bonus healing in amounts similar to Divine Favor). If it applies to enchantments on anyone near you, this suggests you could have a D/Mo that can spam Reversal of Fortune, Guardian, Vigorous Spirit, etc. and gain energy in the process (admittedly, you lose Divine Favor).

Does that seem just a little over-powered? Is anyone seeing a more sensible way to read this description?

Thats what i thought.

COuld be "only Dervish enchantments"

Lady Lozza · Jul 27, 2006, 08:34 AM // 08:34

No, they don't make primary attributes to be THAT restrictive, period.

Expertise, Energy storage, Soul reaping, Fast casting, Spawning, Critical Hits, Strength, all cross-compatible. Hence mysticism will NOT apply to ONLY dervish enchantments.

The Real Avalon · Jul 27, 2006, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Sounds pretty darn overpowered, we'll just see about it in the weekend, too bad i won't be around, though i'd appreciate it if anyone could mail me some pics & stuff about how it's been

LiamR · Jul 27, 2006, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Erm.. i dont know what youre reading, but on the official gw site, leadership is the primary for paragons. Spear mastery aint. sorry if anyone has posted this, i just looked at 2 pages..

LiamR · Jul 27, 2006, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaane

Yeah, I was thinking that a Dervish/Assassin sounds pretty effective as well. It'll be fun experimenting this weekend. Hopefully they will have a D/A prebuilt, since I don't have any Balth faction stored up at the moment (nor will I have access to my GW-playing computer until the weekend), so I can't just unlock Dervish skills for a custom-pvp char.

You wont be able to have a dervish assassin. Well, you might be able to, as technically it isnt nightfall. But whats the point, you couldnt use it after.

Silent Kitty · Jul 27, 2006, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Lol, I was just about to start this topic. Search does work

I see a whole new future for my monk here. I am 100% sure that this one will be nerved big time, or they will change this before Nightfall comes out. Either that, or soon there will run a whole lot of D/Mo bots around.

Marth Reynolds · Jul 27, 2006, 12:36 PM // 12:36

hmm sudden urge to pur well of the profane in pvp necro builds during preview.
but if it´s true that mystisicm triggers upon enchantments ending on allies then it then it would simply be to overpowerd.
most likely enchantments ending on you.

Felbryn · Jul 27, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

You wont be able to have a dervish assassin. Well, you might be able to, as technically it isnt nightfall. But whats the point, you couldnt use it after.

I see no reason you couldn't have a D/A. For the PvP event, Anet has stated that there will be a secondary profession changer available for PvP characters, to make trying out different builds more convenient, so you could even take a D/- template and change it into a D/A. If you want a RP char that's a D/A after release, you buy both Factions and Nightfall, create a Dervish in chapter 3, journey back to chapter 2, and use the profession changer in Senji's Corner. And it would be quite bizarre if they didn't let you select any class combinations you want for custom PvP characters. I see no problem here.

Quote:

No, they don't make primary attributes to be THAT restrictive, period

Divine Favor applies only to Monk spells that target allies; making Mysticism apply only to Dervish Enchantments would be somewhat more restrictive, but might not be much more restrictive.

But, as with every other hypothesized restriction, we're left with the worrisome fact that the description didn't say that. It doesn't say dervish enchantments; it doesn't say cast by you, it doesn't say on you, it doesn't say on allies. Considering that Guild Wars is usually pretty rigorous in the wording on all its tooltips, this really has me wondering.

Of all the proposed "implicit" limitations, the "enchantments on you" one sounds most plausible to me, simply because I can imagine someone being in a frame of mind where they're only thinking about the character and not the surroundings, and so might not think it natural to consider enchantments on other creatures. But even that seems like a stretch.

The other explanations seem to be that they have given us a deliberately vague description (which seems odd, considering that they gave us numerical values for the amount of health and energy returned) or that it really has the broad, obviously-broken function.

Several implausible possibilities, no clear reasonable one.

But I think it is likely to be somewhat abusable even if it's limited to enchantments cast by you and on you--for keeping yourself alive with enchantments while you do whatever else a Dervish does, if nothing else. With only one of either of those limitations, it leaves open a lot of scary possibilities. If it's limited to Dervish enchantments, then we'll need to see what those enchantments are to draw any conclusions.

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